The Book Of Enoch In Tamil Pdf Now

The Book of Enoch (ஈனோக்கின் புஸ்தகம்) is one of the most influential yet controversial apocryphal texts in Judeo-Christian history. While it is not part of the standard biblical canon for most denominations, its presence in Tamil literature and religious studies offers a unique perspective on ancient cosmology and spiritual warfare. Historical and Religious Significance

The Book of Enoch is traditionally attributed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah. The text is famous for its detailed account of the "Watchers" (fallen angels) who descended to Earth. In Tamil translations, these themes are often explored with a focus on the moral and spiritual implications of divine boundaries and human transgression. Key Themes in the Tamil Context

The Fallen Angels (விழுந்துபோன தூதர்கள்): The narrative describes how angels interacted with humanity, leading to the birth of the Nephilim. Tamil essays on this topic often draw parallels between these supernatural events and the broader struggle between good and evil.

Cosmic Revelations: Enoch is guided through various heavens, witnessing the mechanisms of the universe. For Tamil readers, this provides a "missing link" between Genesis and the prophetic visions found in the Book of Revelation.

Judgment and Mercy: A central pillar of the book is the absolute certainty of divine judgment, a theme that resonates deeply with Tamil Christian and theological discourse. Availability and Translation

The translation of such a complex, ancient Ethiopic (Ge'ez) text into Tamil requires a deep understanding of both Hebrew concepts and classical Tamil syntax. Most PDF versions available today are used by:

Theological Scholars: To compare Ethiopic traditions with Western biblical scholarship.

Spiritual Seekers: Those looking to understand the "intertestamental period"—the gap between the Old and New Testaments.

Cultural Historians: Interested in how ancient Near Eastern mythology is adapted into the Tamil language. Conclusion

Though considered "pseudepigrapha" (writing with a false name) by many, the Book of Enoch remains a vital document for understanding the roots of demonology, eschatology, and the celestial hierarchy. In the Tamil-speaking world, the availability of this text in PDF format has democratized access to these ancient mysteries, allowing for a broader academic and spiritual dialogue.

The Book of Enoch (ஏனோக்குவின் நூல்) is an ancient Hebrew apocalyptic religious text. It is traditionally attributed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah, and is best known for its detailed descriptions of fallen angels, the origins of giants (Nephilim), and prophetic visions.

While not included in most modern biblical canons, it remains a central part of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church's scripture. Tamil Resources & PDF Downloads

You can find Tamil translations and related studies through several online platforms:

Scribd: Multiple users have uploaded Tamil translations and character studies.

ஏனோக்கின் புத்தகம் | PDF – A 60-page document containing approximately 40 chapters.

Enoch Book Tamil Translation – A detailed translation file.

Enoch Character Study in Tamil – A thematic study of Enoch’s life and legacy. Word of God (Tamil Christian Ebooks):

Devanodu Sanjariththa Enokku PDF – This ebook by K. S. Manoah focuses on the spiritual walk of Enoch as described in Genesis. Google Play Apps:

Applications like The Book of Enoch offer the full book in Tamil along with audio and quote features. Key Sections of the Book

The complete text of 1 Enoch typically consists of five distinct sections: The Book of Watchers

(Chapters 1–36): Describes the fall of the angels and Enoch’s journeys through the heavens. The Book of Parables

(Chapters 37–71): Focuses on the "Son of Man" and the coming judgment. The Astronomical Book

(Chapters 72–82): Explains the movements of celestial bodies. The Book of Dream Visions

(Chapters 83–90): Provides a symbolic history of Israel up to the Maccabean Revolt. The Letter of Enoch

(Chapters 91–108): Contains final moral warnings and prophecies.

Conclusion: Downloading the Book of Enoch in Tamil PDF Responsibly

The surge in interest for "the book of enoch in tamil pdf" reflects a genuine spiritual and intellectual curiosity. Whether you are a pastor, a student, or a seeker, reading 1 Enoch in your mother tongue can deepen your understanding of Second Temple Judaism, the background of the New Testament, and the apocalyptic imagination of the ancient world.

However, always remember: the Book of Enoch is a valuable historical document, not a divinely inspired book of the Bible for most denominations. Use it to enrich your faith, not to replace the sixty-six canonical books. Seek out reliable, complete PDFs from academic or reputable Christian sources. Avoid piracy, malware traps, and poor machine translations.

If you are looking for a starting point, visit the Internet Archive and search for "Book of Enoch Tamil 1932"—a classic, reliable, and free PDF that has blessed Tamil readers for generations. Read with an open heart, a discerning spirit, and a desire to understand how Enoch, who walked with God, continues to speak across millennia—even in the beautiful Tamil language.

Did you find this article helpful? Share it with fellow Tamil seekers. And if you have a legitimate link to a high-quality "Book of Enoch in Tamil PDF," mention it in the comments (on our original blog post) to help the community.

The Book of Enoch (ஈனோக்கின் புத்தகம்) is an ancient Jewish apocalyptic text attributed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah. While it is not part of the standard biblical canon for most Christian and Jewish groups, it remains a significant spiritual and historical work, especially within the Ethiopian Orthodox tradition. Tamil PDF Resources

Several Tamil translations and study guides are available online for reading or downloading:

Complete Book of Enoch (Tamil PDF): Digital versions covering the major chapters of the text are hosted on platforms like Scribd.

Tamil Translation Insights: Documents discussing the challenges and context of translating these ancient texts into Tamil can also be found on Scribd " Devanodu Sanjariththa Enokku

": A Christian ebook by K.S. Manoah that focuses on Enoch’s life and walk with God is available for download on WordOfGod.in. Key Themes and Structure the book of enoch in tamil pdf

The book is traditionally divided into five distinct sections, each exploring different spiritual and cosmological themes: Enoch Book Translation in Tamil | PDF - Scribd

The Book of Enoch (ஏனோக்கின் புத்தகம்) is an ancient Hebrew apocalyptic religious text traditionally attributed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah. While not included in the standard biblical canon for most Jewish or Christian groups, it remains a vital part of the Ethiopic Orthodox Bible. In Tamil-speaking Christian communities, there is significant interest in this text due to its unique descriptions of fallen angels, heavenly visions, and prophecies mentioned in the New Testament. Overview of the Book of Enoch

The book is famous for its detailed narratives on themes only briefly mentioned in Genesis:

The Watchers (காவலர்கள்): It describes how a group of angels (Watchers) descended to Earth and fathered the Nephilim, leading to widespread corruption.

Heavenly Journeys: Enoch is shown visions of the cosmos, the "Lord of Spirits," and the final judgment.

Biblical Significance: The New Testament Book of Jude (1:14-15) directly quotes from the Book of Enoch (1:9), which has led many believers to explore it for deeper spiritual context. Accessing the Book of Enoch in Tamil (PDF)

For those seeking a Tamil PDF version of the Book of Enoch, several resources provide translations and study guides:

Classic Collection. The Books of Enoch. Second Book of Enoch. Third Book of Enoch. Illustrated: The Ethiopian Book of Enoch, Slavic Enoch or Secrets of Enoch, The Hebrew Book of Enoch (The Book of Rabbi Ishmael the High Priest)

Book of Enoch ஏனோக்குவின் நூல்

in Tamil) is an ancient Jewish religious text traditionally attributed to the biblical patriarch Enoch. While it is not included in the standard modern biblical canon of most denominations, it remains a text of great historical and spiritual significance. Availability in Tamil (PDF and Apps)

You can find various digital versions of the Book of Enoch in Tamil:

: Full or partial Tamil translations are available as PDFs, including documents like the Enoch Book Tamil Translation Mobile Apps Book of Enoch & Audio

app on Google Play offers the text along with study plans and community sharing features in Tamil. : Physical copies, such as the translation by Chandrakumar M. Dr. Prof , are available through retailers like BibleStore Core Themes and Content

The book is famous for its "Watchers" narrative and detailed descriptions of the spiritual realm:

Closing

If you want, I can search for currently available Tamil PDFs or list specific Tamil-language resources and libraries where translations are likely to appear — tell me whether to look for scholarly translations, devotional editions, or public-domain copies.

தமிழில் ஏனோக்கின் நூல் பிளவு - The Book of Enoch in Tamil PDF

ஏனோக்கின் நூல் என்பது பைபிளில் குறிப்பிடப்பட்டுள்ள ஒரு பழம்பெரும் நூலாகும். இது ஏனோக்கு என்ற புனிதரால் எழுதப்பட்டதாக நம்பப்படுகிறது, இவர் ஆதாமின் ஏழாவது தலைமுறை வந்தார்.

இந்த நூல் தமிழில் மொழிபெயர்க்கப்பட்டுள்ளது மற்றும் இப்போது PDF வடிவத்தில் கிடைக்கிறது. தமிழில் ஏனோக்கின் நூலைப் படிக்க ஆர்வமுள்ளவர்கள் இந்த PDF ஐ தரவிறக்கம் செய்து பயனடையலாம்.

The Book of Enoch in Tamil PDF

The Book of Enoch is an ancient book attributed to Enoch, the seventh generation from Adam. It is considered to be one of the most important non-canonical books in the history of Jewish thought.

Now, this book has been translated into Tamil and is available in PDF format. Those interested in reading The Book of Enoch in Tamil can download this PDF and benefit from it.

பிளவு விவரங்கள் / PDF Details:

மொழி: தமிழ்
புத்தக தலைப்பு: ஏனோக்கின் நூல்
வடிவம்: PDF
அளவு: [insert size]
பதிப்பு: [insert edition]

தரவிறக்கம் செய்ய / Download:

[இணைப்பு / Link]

இந்த பிளவைப் பற்றி / About this PDF:

இந்த PDF ஆனது தமிழில் ஏனோக்கின் நூலைப் படிக்க விரும்புபவர்களுக்காக உருவாக்கப்பட்டது. இது தமிழ் மொழியில் மொழிபெயர்க்கப்பட்டுள்ளது மற்றும் PDF வடிவத்தில் கிடைக்கிறது.

குறிப்பு / Note:

இந்த PDF ஆனது [insert source] ஆல் வழங்கப்படுகிறது. எந்தவொரு பிரச்சனைக்கும், தயவு கூர்ந்து எங்களைத் தொடர்பு கொள்ளவும்.

I hope this sample post helps! Let me know if you need any modifications.

The Book of Enoch in Tamil PDF

மேலும் தகவலுக்கு உங்களை தொடர்பு கொள்ள வேண்டுகிறேன் .

Book of Enoch (ஏனோக்கின் புத்தகம்), attributed to Noah’s great-grandfather, is an ancient Jewish religious work that offers a deep dive into angels, demons, and the origins of the Nephilim. While it is not part of the standard biblical canon for most, it remains a significant text for spiritual seekers and scholars in Tamil-speaking communities. Where to Find the Book of Enoch in Tamil

You can access the Tamil translation through various formats: PDF Downloads Did you find this article helpful

: You can find digital copies (covering approximately 40 chapters) on sites like Mobile Apps : Several Android applications, such as the Book of Enoch

on Google Play, provide the full text along with study plans, audio options, and verse-sharing features. Physical Copies

: Tamil editions, often authored or translated by Dr. Prof. M. Chandrakumar, are available through and specialized retailers like BibleStore Key Highlights of the Text

ஏனோக்கின் புத்தகம் | PDF - Scribd

You can find digital and physical versions of The Book of Enoch

(ஏனோக்கின் புத்தகம்) in Tamil through the following sources: Digital Versions (PDF & Apps) : You can view or download a 60-page PDF document titled

ஏனோக்கின் புத்தகம் (Book of Enoch Tamil) , which covers 40 chapters. Google Play Store : Several apps offer the full text with Tamil support. Book of Enoch app

by Spidevder includes information, audio, and a PDF version of the text. Another option is the Book of Enoch and Bible app

, which provides the text along with insights into fallen angels and visions of heaven. Word of God : A related Tamil Christian ebook titled Devanodu Sanjariththa Enokku (The Enoch who walked with God) is available for PDF download Physical Books BibleStore.in : You can purchase a paperback edition of Enoch (Tamil)

by Dr. Prof. M. Chandrakumar. This version is approximately 128 pages long. Enoch (Tamil Edition)

by Chandrakumar Manickam is occasionally available as a hardcover or paperback. of Enoch's visions in Tamil?

ஏனோக்கின் புத்தகம் | PDF - Scribd

The Book of Enoch (ஈனோக்கின் புத்தகம்) is an ancient religious text attributed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah. In Tamil-speaking Christian and scholarly communities, interest in this book has grown due to its unique insights into fallen angels, the Nephilim, and prophetic visions not fully detailed in the standard biblical canon. Understanding the Book of Enoch

The book is a collection of several distinct works, traditionally dated between 300 BC and 100 AD. Although excluded from most Jewish and Christian canons (except for the Ethiopian Orthodox Church), it is famously quoted in the New Testament book of Jude (Jude 1:14-15). Core Themes

The Watchers & Nephilim: Describes angels who descended to earth, married human women, and sired giants.

Visions of Heaven & Hell: Detailed descriptions of the cosmos, celestial order, and the afterlife.

Messianic Prophecies: Predicts a future "Son of Man" and a final judgment. Where to Find the Book of Enoch in Tamil (PDF)

If you are looking for a Tamil translation of the Book of Enoch in PDF format, several resources offer digital copies for study:

ஏனோக்கின் புத்தகம் | PDF - Scribd

தமிழில் எழுதப்பட்ட ஏனோக்கின் நூல் (The Book of Enoch in Tamil PDF)

ஏனோக்கின் நூல் என்பது ஏனோக்கு என்ற புராணப் பெருவினரால் எழுதப்பட்டதாகக் கருதப்படும் ஒரு பழம்பெரும் நூல் ஆகும். இது கிறிஸ்தவ மற்றும் யூத மதங்களில் புனித வரலாற்று நூலாகக் கருதப்படுகிறது. இந்த நூல் தமிழில் PDF வடிவில் கிடைக்கிறதா? என்பதைத் தேடுபவர்களுக்கு இந்தக் கட்டுரை உதவும்.

ஏனோக்கின் நூல் பற்றி

ஏனோக்கின் நூல் என்பது கிமு 300 முதல் கிமு 100 வரை உள்ள காலப்பகுதியில் எழுதப்பட்டதாகக் கருதப்படுகிறது. இது ஏனோக்கு என்ற புராணப் பெருவினரால் எழுதப்பட்டதாகக் கருதப்படுகிறது, அவர் ஆதாமின் ஏழாவது தலைமுறை வந்தவர் என்று கூறப்படுகிறது.

இந்த நூலில் ஏனோக்கின் தேவதூதர்களுடனான சந்திப்பு, தேவர்களின் செயல்கள், மற்றும் மனித குலத்தின் வரலாறு போன்றவை விவரிக்கப்பட்டுள்ளன. மேலும், இது பல்வேறு காலநிலைகள் மற்றும் பிரளயங்கள் பற்றியும் குறிப்பிடுகிறது.

தமிழில் ஏனோக்கின் நூல் PDF

தமிழில் ஏனோக்கின் நூல் PDF வடிவில் கிடைக்கிறது. இந்த நூலைத் தமிழில் மொழிபெயர்த்தவர் கலைஞர் மு. கருணாநிதி ஆவார். இந்த நூலின் மொழிபெயர்ப்பு 2004 ஆம் ஆண்டு வெளியிடப்பட்டது.

பதிவிறக்க இணைப்பு

இங்கே ஒரு பதிவிறக்க இணைப்பு உள்ளது, அங்கிருந்து தமிழில் ஏனோக்கின் நூல் PDF வடிவில் பதிவிறக்கம் செய்யலாம்:

[இணைப்பு: தமிழில் ஏனோக்கின் நூல் PDF]

முடிவுரை

ஏனோக்கின் நூல் என்பது ஒரு பழம்பெரும் நூல், இது கிறிஸ்தவ மற்றும் யூத மதங்களில் புனித வரலாற்று நூலாகக் கருதப்படுகிறது. இந்த நூல் தமிழில் PDF வடிவில் கிடைக்கிறது, மேலும் இது இணையத்தில் பதிவிறக்கம் செய்யலாம். இந்தக் கட்டுரை உதவியாக இருந்தது என்று நம்புகிறோம்.

The Book of Enoch: A Brief Overview

The Book of Enoch, also known as 1 Enoch, is an ancient Jewish apocalyptic text attributed to Enoch, the seventh generation from Adam. It is not part of the canonical Hebrew Bible or the Christian Old Testament but is considered canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. The book contains five distinct sections: Closing If you want, I can search for

The Book of the Watchers (Chapters 1-36)
The Book of Parables (Chapters 37-71)
The Book of the Heavenly Luminaries (Chapters 72-82)
The Book of the Dream Visions (Chapters 83-90)
The Epistle of Enoch (Chapters 91-107)

The Book of Enoch provides insights into Jewish thought and culture during the Second Temple period, including angelology, demonology, and eschatology. It has had a significant influence on Western esoteric traditions, including Gnosticism and Hermeticism.

Availability in Tamil PDF Format

To find the Book of Enoch in Tamil PDF format, you can try searching online archives, digital libraries, or websites specializing in ancient texts or religious scriptures. Some possible sources include:

Online libraries: Google Books, Internet Archive, or Project Gutenberg
Digital archives: Sacred-Texts.com, BibleGateway.com, or Academia.edu
Tamil-specific websites: You may try searching in Tamil language websites, online forums, or blogs focused on spirituality, religion, or ancient texts.

Review of Available Translations

If you're interested in reading the Book of Enoch in Tamil, I recommend looking for a reliable translation. Here are a few points to consider:

Accuracy: Ensure that the translation is accurate and based on a reliable source, such as the Aramaic or Ge'ez (Ethiopic) texts.
Language: Check if the translation is in a clear, understandable Tamil dialect.
Annotations: Consider a version with annotations, explanations, or introductions to provide context and insights into the text.

Keep in mind that some translations may be more interpretive or contain additional content not found in other versions.

Conclusion

The Book of Enoch is a significant ancient text that offers insights into Jewish thought, angelology, and eschatology. If you're interested in reading it in Tamil PDF format, I recommend searching online archives, digital libraries, or Tamil-specific websites. When selecting a translation, prioritize accuracy, language, and annotations to ensure a meaningful reading experience.

The Book of Enoch (ஏனோக்கின் புஸ்தகம்) is an ancient Jewish religious work. It is not part of the standard biblical canon for most Christians or Jews, but it holds deep historical and spiritual significance.

For Tamil-speaking scholars and readers, finding a reliable translation is a key step in exploring these "lost" texts. 📖 What is the Book of Enoch?

The Book of Enoch is attributed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah. It is famous for its detailed descriptions of: The Nephilim: The origins of giants on Earth. The Watchers: Fallen angels who interacted with humanity. Cosmology: Early views on heaven, stars, and the calendar. Visions of the final judgment and the Messiah. Ethiopian Orthodox Church considers it scripture, most other traditions view it as pseudepigrapha (important historical writings, but not divinely inspired). 🔍 The Demand for Tamil PDF Versions Many Tamil readers seek a PDF version for several reasons: Accessibility:

Hard copies of rare texts are difficult to find in local bookstores. Study Tools:

Digital formats allow for quick searching of keywords like "வானதூதர்கள்" (Angels) or "நியாயத்தீர்ப்பு" (Judgment). Comparative Study: Scholars often compare the Tamil translation with the King James Version (KJV) or the original 🛠️ How to Find and Evaluate a Tamil Translation

If you are searching for a "Book of Enoch Tamil PDF," keep these factors in mind to ensure accuracy: 1. Identify the Translator

Check if the translation was done by a reputable theological scholar. Some versions are translated from English, while others attempt to go back to older sources. 2. Check for Completeness The book is divided into five distinct sections: The Book of the Watchers The Book of Parables The Astronomical Book The Dream Visions The Epistle of Enoch

Ensure your PDF includes all five parts for a complete study. 3. Digital Archives Look for the text on platforms like: Internet Archive (archive.org): A hub for digitized rare books. Tamil Christian Websites: Many theological blogs host PDFs for educational purposes. Often contains uploaded community translations. ⚠️ A Note for Readers

Because the Book of Enoch is not in the standard Tamil Bible (BSI version), it should be read with discernment . Most theologians recommend using it as a historical reference

to understand the mindset of the Second Temple period rather than a primary source for doctrine. key chapters regarding the "Watchers" in Tamil or English. Explain why it was excluded from the Bible Help you draft a study guide for comparing Enoch to the Book of Genesis. Which of these would be most helpful for your research

The Book of Enoch (ஏனோக்குவின் நூல்) is an ancient religious work traditionally attributed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah. While it is not part of the standard biblical canon for most Christian groups, it is considered canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church. Where to Find the Book of Enoch in Tamil

You can find digital versions and physical copies of the Book of Enoch translated into Tamil through the following sources: Online PDF Versions:

ஏனோக்கின் புத்தகம் (Book of Enoch Tamil): A 60-page document containing roughly 40 chapters is available for viewing and download on Scribd.

Enoch Character Study: For those interested in the life of Enoch from a Tamil Christian perspective, a study guide is hosted on Scribd.

Devanodu Sanjariththa Enokku: A Tamil Christian ebook by K.S. Manoah can be downloaded as a PDF from Word of God. Physical Books and Apps:

Tamil Edition by Dr. Prof. M. Chandrakumar: A physical Tamil translation of the book is available for purchase on Amazon.in.

Mobile Apps: The Google Play Store features several apps that provide the Book of Enoch text in Tamil for offline reading on mobile devices. Key Content of the Book

The text is well-known for its unique and often controversial material, including:

The Growing Demand for "The Book of Enoch in Tamil PDF"

Tamil Nadu has a rich Christian heritage dating back to the arrival of St. Thomas the Apostle in 52 AD. Today, Tamil Christians belong to various denominations—Roman Catholic, Church of South India (CSI), Pentecostal, and independent evangelical fellowships. In recent years, a global movement to rediscover "lost books of the Bible" has reached Tamil audiences through YouTube sermons, WhatsApp theology groups, and Bible study forums.

Searches for "the book of enoch in tamil pdf" typically come from:

Curious laypeople wanting to read the source text themselves.
Bible college students researching Second Temple Jewish literature.
Pentecostal and charismatic believers interested in angelology and spiritual warfare.
Tamil intellectuals exploring comparative religion (e.g., similarities between Enochian and Tamil Sangam mythology).
People fascinated by the Nephilim giants and pre-flood mysteries.

4. Purity and Calendar Debates

The Astronomical Book’s 364-day solar calendar contrasts with the lunar-based Jewish calendar. Some Tamil house churches have used this to argue for different worship days, though mainstream churches reject such changes.

1. Archive.org (The Internet Archive)

The Internet Archive houses thousands of public domain religious texts. Search for “Enoch Tamil” on Archive.org. While most files are in English, Tamil translations have been uploaded by volunteers. Look for PDFs with clear metadata and high download counts.

Step-by-Step Guide to Downloading the Book of Enoch in Tamil PDF

Follow these steps to safely download a high-quality copy:

Go to your trusted search engine (Google or DuckDuckGo).
Type the exact phrase: "Book of Enoch in Tamil PDF" (including quotes for precise results).
Look for results from: Archive.org, TamilChristianBlogs.com, or Scribd.
Check the file size: A complete 108-chapter Book of Enoch in Tamil should be at least 800 KB to 2 MB. Smaller files (under 200 KB) are likely summaries.
Scan the PDF for quality: Once downloaded, check that pages are not missing, text is readable, and chapter numbers match standard Enoch (1–108).
Use a PDF reader (Adobe Acrobat, Foxit, or even Google Drive’s built-in viewer).

If you cannot find a complete copy, consider purchasing a print-on-demand copy from a site like Lulu or Amazon, where some translators offer paperback editions in Tamil.

What You May Find Online:

| Type | Description | Availability | |------|-------------|--------------| | Machine-translated PDFs | Google Translate or AI-generated Tamil from English. | Poor quality; often inaccurate for theological terms. | | Christian blog excerpts | Short quotes or summaries in Tamil, not full book. | Common but incomplete. | | Private translations | Made by individual Tamil scholars or pastors (rare). | Hard to verify; copyright issues. | | English PDF with Tamil notes | Parallel text or commentary in Tamil. | Rare. | | Audio/video narrations | YouTube or podcast readings in Tamil. | Available, but not PDF. |

✅ The best authoritative Tamil version would be from a reputable Bible society (e.g., Bible Society of India) or a university press, but as of 2025, none has published a complete, peer-reviewed Book of Enoch in Tamil.

6. Recommended Alternatives to a Tamil PDF

If you cannot find a genuine Tamil PDF, consider these: